Triangle of Business Success

Mick:
I’m Mick Hawes from BuildersBusiness Blackbelt. Speaking with Katie Crismale-Marshall and Steph Campanella. And we have decided to get together to put some thoughts together for builders and trades based businesses about some fairly critical ideas on how to improve their business. And help you to understand that the common and awfully often costly mistakes that happen that are completely unnecessary in a trades based business.

I’ll talk about what I do in just a little while but I just want to introduce firstly, Katie, tell us a little bit about yourself. I know that you’re a published author, you’ve written the “Profit First for Tradies”, which we give out to all of our member builders and I absolutely love it.

Katie:
Yeah, so my name is Katie Crismale-Marshall. And as Mick said, I wrote, “Profit First for Tradies”, here.

Mick:
There it is!

Katie:
And I work specifically with tradies to help them become permanently profitable. So no matter what crisis is happening at any point in time, their business can weather that storm. And we do that in many ways. And one of the main parts of that puzzle is by implementing profit first in their business.

Mick:
And the cool thing, and I encourage everybody to get a copy of that book. The cool thing about it is, because I didn’t know Katie, a long while ago, I met Mike Michalowicz who wrote Profit First and became good mates with him. And it just changed everything. Profit First changed everything for us and our members, but the biggest struggle that we had was massaging it and modifying it so it worked for a trades based business because in its pure form, it doesn’t seem to work as well. So Katie’s done an amazing job at modifying, and helping trades based businesses be able to enjoy the benefits of it. Oh, it’s fantastic. Steph Campanella. Tell us about yourself, what do you do? How do you help the trades businesses?

Steph:
Hi, I’m Stephanie Campanella, we run Tradies GO, and we have a system that we implement so that we can fix the foundations, we can fix the positioning and the automation. So that means that the foundation is secure and solid, and we can actually build off it, our builder might think of a foundation, we fixed the positioning. So obviously ranking, paid ranking or organic ranking, but then also automation, so that once you do get those great positions in Google, you actually attract the best customers with bait pieces and calls to action, and make sure that your website’s being held accountable. And actually keeping all those leads and keeping you organized. So it’s a triangle.

Mick:
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s what we’re talking about. In our pre conversations, and I guess we’ll talk about that in a minute.

What I do for the people who don’t know me, we have an organization called Builders Business Blackbelt, specifically for custom home builders. And we just help them change their business. So it gives them what they wanted when they started, which was sort of more financial freedom, more time freedom, enjoy themselves a whole lot more. You speak to most builders, in fact, most trades people pretty much anyone who started a business with that thought process, it very rarely comes to fruition, it’s never their life. So we work really hard to give our builders a lot more profit, a lot more freedom, a lot more fun and meaning. And we have a great time doing it.

And I, as I said, use Katie’s profit first for tradies for our team, for our members, because it just makes such a difference. And Steph also has started looking after our search engine optimization and the website because we were in the bush somewhere, we were in a jungle, we were in the dark forest somewhere where we had a website, thought it was a pretty good website, but no one else could see it. So what we intend to do in this conversation is talk about the three major parts of a business. And so I’m gonna hand it over to Steph in a sec to talk about the three major things that she sees that can really harm a trades based business’s ability to generate quality leads. If you can generate quality leads, it can eliminate a whole raft of other problems in your business. If you’re dealing with poor quality lead, with horrible people, people who don’t want to pay, they want to bargain shopping, tire kick and all of that sort of stuff, they waste your time. So being able to attract quality leads is absolutely essential.

For my part, what I want to share with you today is the qualification process. And if you haven’t got a good qualification process, you can get a good quality lead. And you can miss out on converting that lead into a customer. So you’ve got to have a good qualification process to eliminate the time wasters, the tire kickers and educate your customer into how to work with you to get the absolute maximum value and the best quality experience. And then of course, we want Katie to help us to understand if we’ve got great leads, and we’ve got great customers, and we’re making money, how to keep it, because there’s not much point if it’s going in one hand and out the other, if it’s slipping through your fingers, you’re working really hard, you’ve potentially got a great business, but you’ve just got to keep on that bike and keep pedaling and pedaling. Because you’re not building any sort of wealth in the background, you might be making it but you’re not keeping it. So we want Katie to give us the secrets of those. And before we go on, we’re kind of talking that these three things are like a triangle. And each of them are so important to hold the other part of the triangle in place, if one disappears out of the equation, the others collapse. And that’s how we see that thing. So we want to go through each of these things, identify what the major issues are, what the solutions are. And then after that you guys can reach out to any one of us to get some help. So hope that makes sense, Steph, let’s start with you. Because at the start, we’ve got to generate leads.

Steph:
Yep!

Mick:
What are the three main problems that you see with trades based businesses in lead generation?

Steph:
So I mean, the big three is visibility, like you either have no visibility, and no one can see you online. So therefore, you’re not going to generate any work. And it’s all going to be word of mouth, and you have no control over your lead gen. Like you’re just waiting for someone else to just basically turn up in your business. Whereas if you’ve got visibility, and you’ve got control, it’s kind of like having a tap that you can turn on and off depending on your foreseeable quote. Are you six months in advance in terms of projects that are all booked in or do you have no idea what’s coming up? So visibility is really important. Because it’s not just about being online and generating word of mouth. I mean, I always feel like when it’s just word of mouth leads, it’s kind of like, you just got to take him, because who knows when the next lead is coming in, you have no control. So the first thing is visibility, and actually being seen online and being understood. Your website could have a mess of messages. And there’s no clarity as to what you even do, just visibility in general. But also, is your message actually clear? So visibility is really important. And we tend to do that with, with bait pieces and big calls to action. And making sure that all the functions are all pushing someone to take action, and lead them to the path that you want them to go to, not that you just let them go.

The second big thing is that a lot of trade and builders spend a lot of time on social media. In times of need, they just post more content. And just hope for the best. And again, there’s no process to that. You have no idea if it’s even working, you’re just kind of posting and you’re more busy. So it feels like something’s gonna happen. But again, if you actually focus on set marketing activities, you can drive more interest in and drive stronger lead gen. So that’s something that I see very often.

The last one is emailing customers. So if you are not ranked yet and you’re not willing to pay for pay per click, which is completely fine. No Google ads or no Facebook ads, then have you got an email database because of all our trades when they come with us. There is like some minute percentage that is actually doing email marketing and I mean, email is gold. I think it’s like the oldest trick in the book, but no one does it. Because I think all these new social media things like, that’s what’s working, it’s like, no, the best marketing tools are the ones that you actually use. So yeah, I can’t stress it, email is the most undervalued tool in the marketing space there. So yeah, that’s kind of my three. And every call that I have with a client, it’s like, we’re doing the work. But is it profitable? and there’s Katie there that can help with understanding if you’re actually pricing correctly. And then, we send all these leads, and then the customer won’t be answering the phone properly. And it’s an onboarding and sales conversation where Mick comes in. We’re kind of like partners, I guess you could say. It’s like, you kind of need all three to do it properly. I think Mick put this together perfectly. You can have great finance and a great sales system, but you have no leads, or you can have great lead gen. And you know, your pricing is great, but you don’t know how to talk to a customer. And, yeah, so really good sort of little triangle thoughts we’ve got here.

Mick:
We’ve got to have all three, I mean, it’s just the way the structure works. And to bogged down into a little bit more depth about what you just talked about. I think what you’ll see is many trades based businesses do random acts of marketing, rather than it being structured. So there are all of these things, links to the chain, but none of them are connected together. So in and of themselves, they’re probably good marketing pieces, but they don’t lead anyway, anywhere because the chain is broken. So it’s great to have someone like Steph to look after that. Also, I think what you’re saying with email databases is many businesses tend to have their database on a social platform. So they got all people on their Facebook page, liking them, or in a Facebook group as a member or whatever. Facebook changed the rules quite quickly, if you hadn’t noticed, anything can happen at any tick of the clock, you’ve got to have your people in your database. So no matter what the flavor of the month with the social platforms is you’ve still got contact, and you can go Hey, let’s jump over onto this other platform now and, and that sort of stuff. So, great! Things to watch out for from Steph and while you’re listening to this video, Think for yourself as to what, what if any of those things are you doing correctly or not? And do you want to reach out to get some help with that now, I’ve been in and around marketing for a long time. And I had to engage Steph to help me get my shit together. I was in the tradespace business, you’ve already got a bloody job, you don’t need another one. And you haven’t got the time or the bandwidth. You know, I consider myself fairly tech savvy. But when it comes to the changing landscape of Facebook and search engine optimization, and Google and what have you, it’s a full time job, you’ve got to engage somebody who knows your industry and can help look after you. So that’s Steph, she’s helping you with that front end, how to become visible, and how to attract the right type of people for your business. Once the lead has been attracted. One of the things that I do for our guys is we create a what’s called the quality client pathway and it’s its primary function is to educate the customer on how to work with you how to behave to get the best possible outcome for themselves as far as quality, value, and for the quality of the experience and the value for their investment. And the mistakes that I see builders and other trades based businesses because we got some electricians and we even got a building designer and shed builder and a few things outside building in the in membership so we get to look, peer inside their businesses as well. So, the common mistakes generally are somebody who calls up on the phone or sends an email message in. They’re instantly seen as an opportunity as a lead and off we go Jump on the phone, and we’ll go out to see the site. And we’ll gather all the information and in some cases, spend 30, 40, 50 hours putting together a quote, for a customer who had no intention of giving you the job, because they’ve already got a builder, and they’ve just pretended to be a lead for you so they could get you to go and basically price check the quote that they’ve already got. It just grinds my gears that the people out there think that little of trades and builders that they ask them to put hours and hours and hours, not only their time, but their expertise, their experience, their knowledge into something and expect to pay absolutely nothing for. So, in Builders Business Blackbelt, you know, free quotes are outlawed, we just do not allow our members to do it, they get paid for their proposals. And there’s a process that you need to learn to be able to position yourself to get paid for your proposals. And every single builder who’s done it wonders why they didn’t ever do it before and will never go back. But the key to this folks is that you’ve got to flip the script. And this is the sort of thing that we teach our guys, instead of you being up on stage, juggling the balls and eating fire, and the customer is down behind the judges bench there. They’re sitting there, you know, with their hands on the bench saying well show us what you’ve got. And you’re juggling and doing all of this sort of thing. And then they’ll go, maybe we’ll put you through to the next round, or maybe not. We’ve got to flip that script, you put your prospects up on the stage and you ask them, show me what you’ve got. And because it’s your business, you can decide whether you’re going to let them into your business if they’re appropriate to work with or not, there’s a couple of things you need to do. So some of the mistakes people make is that anybody who could fog up a mirror is a prospect. Well, no, they’re not. Just because they’re breathing isn’t qualification enough, you need to make sure that they’re in the right place in the process. They are the right type of person for you. And so we create this qualifying process that has a series of ever increasing hurdles, behavioral hurdles, we call them to get your prospect and the hurdles are designed so the right type of person for you will have no problem stepping over that hurdle, they will perform the action that you’ve asked them to perform. And they go to the next step. And then there’s a slightly higher hurdle. And that goes three or four times before you open the door to your business. The people who aren’t appropriate for your business, they will be like the horse that runs up to the jump and stops. And they won’t go any further which is fantastic for you. Because you don’t have to say no for a start. And they have behaved their way out of your process. So it saves you a whole lot of time. Plus, you don’t end up with a nightmare client and anyone who’s been in the trades based businesses for any more than five minutes will have had a nightmare client. Thought that work was a good idea at the time and wished that never laid eyes on them. And so this process can eliminate all of those people and even get a seemingly average prospect to turn into a really, really high quality customer for you, for your business. So we’ve got Steph to create the lead . They come knocking on the door, through the email, on the phone, into the office, however they do it. And then we put them through this process. So they become good quality customers. We do the build for them. They pay us. And guess what? We’ve got some profit leftover. This is when we hand pass everything to Katie, because and I don’t want to steal your thunder at all, Katie, but I just quickly want to say because coming from a place where I was a business coach. And before we were called Builders Business Blackbelt we were called uncover hidden profits.com that was the name of the business. And we used to have a podcast and all of that sort of stuff. So I had a big background backdrop with uncover hidden profits in two foot high letters on the wall. And it was just me and my desk and it was the weekend that I was reading Mike Michalowicz’s profit first. I’d been in business for about 18 or 20 years at that stage. And I read profit first. And I looked up at the wall and it turns out I didn’t even know what a profit was. I felt sick to the point where I thought I was gonna lose my lunch. I was so disgusted in what I had done in the last 18 to 20 years with our financial decisions. Fortunately, I went pretty quick from disgust to excitement. Once I started to understand there was a pathway forward. And we started to implement it straightaway. And it has changed everything I can’t tell you. And I don’t want to tell you because it sounds like I’d be boasting. If I said, this is where we were, this is where we are now, you know, people get sort of slashed down with the old tall poppy syndrome thing, but I can’t recommend to anyone profit first, I can’t recommend it enough. And particularly with Katie, because that’s been the biggest challenge we’ve had is massaging and modifying profit first that works for a trade based business. So let’s hear from Katie, please tell us what are the mistakes that you see trades based businesses make that keep them poor.

Katie:
And that’s a good point about having those consistent numbers coming in with your referrals being paid to get the right client, so that you do make money because one of the things I see is people, tradies, think if they just get another job, if they just get a bigger job, the the profit side of things will take care of themselves, and they won’t, and like we said, coming back to that triangle. If you don’t get all three sides right, it’s not going to work. So I always explain profit first in the way of a you know, we don’t go to site and build a house unless we’ve got a plan. We don’t, you know, go into a Renno unless we have a plan, and we all know which is doing which part and at which time, and what I think as business owners, what has failed to be taught to us is a plan to manage our money. And that’s exactly what profit first is. It’s just a framework that we use to manage your money properly, to pay ourselves first, and to pay ourselves a profit. And the things I see happen time and time again. And everybody thinks that they’re the only one. They think that everybody else is doing amazing. They see everybody else, their mates with the cars and the boats, and boats and the bikes and so on. And they think there’s a lot of shame, I guess around thinking that they’re not doing as well as the next person. I have had the fortune to look into hundreds of trades businesses and the majority of them are suffering the same as everybody else. They just look like they’ve got it on. But like you, you think you’re in a certain spot, and then all of a sudden, one day you actually like no, no, it’s not right, I’m not making any profit. So the three things I say…

Mick:
Say what profit is first. And the reason I want you to explain that is because I didn’t know what it was. And I thought I was reasonably intelligent, but still didn’t understand what real profit was. And the reason I want you to share that is because through builders business black belt, when we get a new member on, we put them through a profit first financial health check. And the shocking, shocking result of that is, we’ve been doing this for a long time now. We have not had one builder go through that financial health check. Not one of them has been profitable. And I mean, not $1 of profit. They thought they had profit because the profit and loss sheet said they had profit. But when you’re a profit first and measure it that way, none of them are profitable. And that’s well but at least one of the big reasons why we’re why we go into business. So explain profit.

Katie:
So as Mick was just saying, there’s profit from an accounting perspective on your profit and loss. And when the accountant gives you those at the end of the year, and he tells you you’ve made a profit, that’s a paper profit. Everybody’s first thought is a sheet where that money is because it’s like an account. And then they continue on doing the same thing year in and year out, and they still have no money left over. When we talk about profit first, and profit from that perspective, we’re talking about setting a specific amount aside for your profit as your reward for being the business owner and taking all the risks that there are to being the business owner, which is different to our wages. Our wages are our wages for the job we do in the business. You know, you might be on site, you might be in the office, whatever that may be. So we have to make sure that we set a specific amount aside for profit first, what the formula is from an accounting perspective, is sales minus expenses equals profit. So it’s a leftover afterthought, what profit first does is sales minus profit expenses and just that small shift means that we are putting our focus and our importance on actually planning for a profit in our business, rather than saying what we’ve got left over at the end, because when we see what we’ve got left over at the end, we are not profitable.

Mick:
The hope strategy.

Katie:
Yeah.

Mick:
I hope something’s left.

Katie:
It’ll be different next year. And the next year rolls around. It’ll be different next year.

Katie:
Yes, yes. And so the reason why it’s not different, is because businesses don’t prepare their business to be profitable. I often hear I wasn’t very good at math is not my thing. My bookkeeper takes care of that I’m a bit behind these reasons. As the business owner, we need to take responsibility for every part of our business, it doesn’t mean that we have to do every step in our business. And what I find, particularly when it comes to the numbers, is that we don’t put it first. We put it, we put it last and then it doesn’t happen. So we need to make sure that we have our bookkeeping under control that we are using, I only carry my bookkeeping or with my bookkeeping clients. So whichever system is fine, but that you’re using zero to its most efficient way there is, again, when we take on new bookkeeping clients, we do a full review of their zero. And I’m yet to have a zero file where we haven’t been able to implement so many different automations and efficiencies that makes such a difference in their business, because we know the numbers are right. So we have to prepare for that we can again just hope that our accountants going to do our bookkeeping every quarter or that, you know, the bookkeeper is going to keep it up to date, or that the whoever’s job it is, it’s just going to happen, we need to make sure that we plan to put checks in place to make sure that those things happen. The second thing we need to do, we need to plan for our profit. So we need to know what our goals are, how but how we’re going to get those goals. So like Steph was saying, word of mouth is great, but we can’t plan for that. And if you can’t plan the leads coming in, it makes it really difficult to plan for your profit. Because it’s going to be lumpy, it’s going to be up and down. And you’re going to not stick to the plan, because you haven’t started at step one and got those consistencies in there. So you have to plan for your profit with things like your marketing with things like your proposals, you have to get those things in place. And then the final thing we do is we actually have to make and take out what profit first will do in your business, it will show you very quickly, in most instances that you’re not profitable. And I will show you where and for many people that is not fun, and not super exciting. Because many of them have been in business for so long. And they’ve managed to get by and they’ve managed to get by and they’ve managed to get by, but they’re actually not profitable. And by following the profit first framework, it makes it really easy to see which areas of your business you need help in first so that you have a plan. Rather than going I’m gonna go over here and fix it. You know, my sales problem. Oh, hang on. No, it’s a marketing problem. Oh, hang on. No, it’s this problem. Profit First, will show you exactly where the problem is. And then you can go in and fix that problem or have that specialist fix that problem for you. So then you are consistently and permanently profitable.

Mick:
Yeah. And like I think one of the important things that you’ve just mentioned right there at the end was you might know what you need to fix. And then you sort of said you could fix it or you could get an expert to go fix it. You know, we all have been coached at some level by Taki Moore. He’s my business coach, and now he is yours, Katie? Steph knows of Taki as well. Business coaches need business coaches as well.

Katie:
I think people forget that. And I tell clients all the time, I have a business coach, I’m part of Taki’s group. I also have a profit first mentor. So I preach this to people all day every day. But I still have a profit first mentor who helps me keep on track because it’s the accountability. It’s the focus that we all need at no matter what level and that surprises people. But it’s important, vital to our businesses.

Mick:
And I think the important point to take away from that as well is that Taki always teaches us to ask who not how.

Katie:
Yes!

Mick:
Because, how do I fix the problem? Well, you’ve got to learn how to fix the problem. And you normally have to pay to be taught or pay for a bit of software or do, you’ve got to pay to fix the problem. And it takes your time and your mental energy and all of that sort of stuff, asking who instead of how, it is you have to pay? Yeah, but it’s significantly cheaper, because you don’t, it doesn’t take your time, it doesn’t take your bandwidth, they’ll do a million times better job than you ever would. Because you’re a builder or a sparky or a plumber or some other trades, and you’re not built to do that stuff. So always ask who not how, to that point, what I’d love to do is sort of go around the circle again and ask Steph. What’s the first step that somebody needs to take to get a hold of you? What’s the go? Like, they reach out to you and how do they do that? And once they do, what are the steps that happen for them after that?

Steph:
Yeah, sure. So I mean, so tradiesgo.com.au.

Mick:
I’ll put all the details after at the end of that video, as well. So once this video is finished, I’ll put it all up on the screen. So you have Steph’s, Katie’s and myself, websites, contact information, away you go.

Steph:
Mick is so smooth, I tell you. So tradiesgo.com.au. There’s an apply for a call section there or you can go to the accelerate page, the accelerate system page and read about our program and how it works and success stories and all that sort of stuff. And are you the right fit. So there’ll be a form that you need to fill out that tells us a little bit about your business and what level you’re at, because we aren’t for everyone. And I’m like, I’m completely upfront with that. Like, we can’t solve everyone’s problem, depending on where you’re at in your business. So the best thing to do is to obviously, apply for a call, we’ll go over a 45 minute game plan call and just go through everything that’s going on with the business and where you’re at, what you’ve done before, what you’ve tried. And I can sort of, I won’t diagnose, but I can see where you’re at. And if your core problem is what we solve. And if it is what we solve, then we can offer you a spot in our program, again, because we can’t take too many trades or builders on in any one area, because that would just be like malpractice. Like how can we take, you know, five plumbers on that all Sydney plumber, like, I mean, we would know everyone’s secrets and be working bids against each other. So that would just be stupid. So we choose, I guess the cream of the crop of the best client for us to work with that we can actually make an impact with. And then off we go, we get into the whole getting started and taking over and all that sort of stuff. And there’s always lots of amazing stories that happen when that happens. So that that’s kind of our own wrap, like I guess you could say.

Mick:
Yeah, perfect. And just to add to that, if you’re thinking, oh, maybe I don’t need that sort of stuff, you’d be really wrong, you’d be very, very mistaken. I know that because I thought that. And I thought for a long time, and I’ve missed out on so many opportunities because of it. And you just need to be visible, you need to have a website that can be found. And there needs to be a pathway when somebody reaches your website, there needs to be a logical, lubricated, no friction pathway to your business. And good luck trying to do that by yourself. Because I said I’m fairly good with the tech and I’ve failed dismally over the last seven years…

Steph:
There’s too many moving parts Mick. And this is the thing, like you might get a marketing team, they’ll just do that one bit, they’ll just do pay per click and they won’t fix the website. Or they’ll just do optimization. And they won’t fix anything. Like it’s just, we just can’t do it like that. We do the whole thing all at once because we just want it done properly. Yeah, like yeah, whole enchilada.

Mick:
Fantastic. As far as we’re concerned. You can reach out to us at buildersbusinessblackbelt.com.au. There’s a call button there. Just like Steph said, we’re not for everyone. It all depends where you are in your building journey. I suggested that we were the best place to help with builders who are established. So you’ve already got somewhat of a team. 2, 3, 4 people in your team member you’ve been around. You’ve experienced the majority of problems in the building industry. We basically just jump on a call, like it’s pretty much as simple as that. We learn a little bit about where you are, where you want to go, you learn all about how we do things. If that works, we’ll talk about what the next step is. If it’s not going to work, well, at least, you know, it’s not going to work, no harm, no foul, but let’s at least have a conversation and let us point you towards the resources that can make a difference. Even if it’s not working with us, there are a gazillion things we can still help you with, and put you in the right direction towards those resources. So that’s how we do it. Katie, do we just drop around to your house? What’s the story with you?

Katie:
No, you can’t. If you like, Mick, it’s a bit of a travel for you.

Katie:
No, no, you’re not. So my website profitfirstfortradies.com.au. You can go there, you can purchase a copy of my book. It is a good place to start. It’s available on audio as well. If you prefer to listen, I wrote it specifically for tradies. So it is short, sharp to the point. I’ve had, I’ve lost count of how many emails I’ve had from traders who have said, I haven’t picked up a book since like primary school. And I was able to read it. So that’s a good start. Because again, like the others have said, we’re not for everybody. And we do take a specific type of client on. So obviously, the trade space is where we work. But you need to be ready and willing and open to do something differently because what you’ve been doing is not working. And we only work with those who are ready to jump in and give profit first a try full on. We don’t work with anyone who’s just going to do this or just going to do this part of it. All in or as Nick said, there’s plenty of other people and other resources I can share and refer you on to. Because we just choose to work with those who are ready to make a difference. You don’t have to know how to do everything, you just have to have the right attitude for us.

Mick:
And I can add weight to what Katie just said there because before we met Katie, I’d been doing my best to teach profit first was in a fairly poor way. And the one thing that I know for sure with certainty is you either implement profit first 100%, or don’t bother, like 99% just won’t cut, it’s got to be all or nothing. And that doesn’t mean that it’s hard. When you implement it, it starts to get easier. A lot, a raft of other problems disappear. You know, just being able to pay the best when it comes up as just one. People go, Wow, I’ve never felt so good. I’ve got the money to pay the best. Like, really, that’s your highlight. So, yeah, anyway, it’s been terrific talking to you. I hope this has made sense to you, the viewer, that all of these three things are essential to be successful in your business. And you may already have one or two of those areas that are successful in your business, but your business overall isn’t working the way you want. So who out of the three parts of the triangle here do you need to talk to? If you need to talk to all three of us. Not sure how that would work. But you know, reach out and reach out and do it in alphabetical order or something and I see. But we’re all here to help, we all support each other. We’re all trying to help trades based businesses achieve the same thing which is to be able to what’s that? The triangle, the Triangle Triangle if you’re doing this to me that you’re sending me love hearts. But anyway, once we’re finished yabbering there’ll be it’ll come up on the screen all of our contact details and be able to, to reach out to any of us, all of us ask us questions. We’re here to help. I hope this made sense. I hope you can see the value in making sure that these three pillars in your business are as solid as you can make them. You’ve got to have these three pillars built in a solid fashion in the first place. And I’ve just realized folks, what we probably should have done is had this video sponsored by Specsavers I just realized. So maybe we’ll see if we can put an ad after.

Steph:
We can still make that call you know.

Mick:
So thank you, Katie. Thank you, Steph.

Katie and Steph:
Thank you!

Mick:
I’m Mick Hawes. It’s been great talking to the viewer, the listener. Real soon.

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